212: Chef Jeremy Leinen: Conquering Hospitality Business Hurdles
As the Executive Chef at Dunwoody Country Club in Atlanta, GA, Jeremy Leinin must grapple with the squandered human capital of the industry and a lack of skilled workers amid a pandemic crisis.
"My gut reaction at the time was that we would have to gut our staffs and still find a way to do everything that we always had to do anyway."
Chef Jeremy Leinin is the Executive Chef of Dunwoody Country Club outside of Atlanta.
He discusses how the pandemic has affected his business. He talks about how the industry is facing a crisis with a lack of skilled workers. He also talks about how the industry has squandered human capital for a long time.
In this episode, you will learn the following:
1. How the food service industry is expected to react to the challenges of the COVID pandemic
2. The potential consequences of the labor shortage in the food service industry
3. The importance of quality of life for employees in the food service industry
Resources:
Chef Jeremy on Linkedin
Chef Jeremy in Club & Resort Chef Magazine
Chapter Summaries:
[00:00:00] - Business is picking up in the industry lately. However, it's not quite back to normal yet because people are still recovering from the flu pandemic that has affected the industry recently “everybody thinks the pandemic is over, but obviously, it is not. “
[00:00:30] - COVID closed for a month around St. Patrick's Day last year. It was supposed to be two weeks, but it turned out to be a lot longer. The club was closed for about a month, and then it slowly came back with golf, a limited-to-go program, and a limited card offering.
[00:01:50] - There's a six-week period between late April, May, and early June when everybody wants to do everything all at once. The weather is nice, so the weather is good, and golf is busy. People are having weddings and graduation parties. The pool opens, and it's pretty much all systems go all at the same time. The COVID and the staffing challenges we had hit a fever pitch for us at the club for a minute.
[00:05:11] - Kobe didn't lose too many staff members during the shutdown. He was proud of how the club stepped up and cared for the staff. Over time, he lost a couple of people due to the lack of banquets. He will read some of your articles in Club and Resort Chef magazine.
[00:07:30] - There are some positive trends in the food service industry that give him more optimism about the future of the industry. He has worked under four different GMs in the 17 years he's been in the industry, and he's seen different mentalities. The way he's reacted to the short staffing that he's had has changed his tune about things. Being a cook is hard work and doesn't pay very well. Many skilled professionals have to work two jobs just to not live in poverty. The industry has to figure out the crisis it's up against right now because it's not glamorous and hard work.
[00:13:17] - There is a labor shortage in the food industry. The industry has squandered human capital for a long time. It's going to take a lot more than pay increases to solve the problem. Some people in the industry always want to be detached from their families. They want to put food on the table and take care of their families. Paul Sorgel talked about the fact that the industry doesn't invest in its people like it used to. Most operations can't afford to do that. In his current operation, only sous chefs were allowed to cut meat, and nobody else knew how to do it.
[00:20:47] - In the future, the industry is going to change dramatically, especially with the shift towards casual dining and quick-service restaurant concepts. The industry is hyper-competitive, and it devalues its own product and its own skill set. It's also trying to undercut each other and be more efficient.
[00:24:43] - In the article ”take charge of your career,”. There are six lessons for people who want to have a more fulfilling career. One of them is the idea of servant leadership. In the culinary world, it's a little different than what most people are used to. In a leadership position, your success is defined by the success of your subordinates.
[00:28:11] - Chef explains to staff how to be patient and not get too worked up over one day without going according to plan. He reminds staff that tomorrow is a new day, and they can start over.
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Jeremy Leinen:
You know, you start talking, you know, Michel.
Jeremy Leinen:
You know, level restaurants and things that, that's a totally different world.
Jeremy Leinen:
And you know, I, I spent some time training at the Greenbrier and you
Jeremy Leinen:
know, I remember when I came out there, you know, I, I was a beast
Jeremy Leinen:
of a cook, but I was also kind of an asshole and I was full of shift.
Jeremy Leinen:
And, and it, it, it took me a long time to unlearn all of that.
Jeremy Leinen:
It, and, and.
Jeremy Leinen:
, those parts of the industry that it's always gonna be kind of reserved
Jeremy Leinen:
for the few and the proud mm-hmm.
Jeremy Leinen:
you know, that's never gonna be meant for everybody, but there's the rest of us.
Jeremy Leinen:
We don't live like that.
Jeremy Leinen:
We don't need to live like that.
Jeremy Leinen:
And the idea of, you know, weeding people out, being a good thing, I
Jeremy Leinen:
mean, that was, that was just absurd.
Jeremy Leinen:
To me, you know, to read that, like, I, I was, I was just astonished Yeah.
Jeremy Leinen:
At how obtuse that comment was, because, you know, this, this industry, as I put it
Jeremy Leinen:
in the article, we're already ruthlessly efficient at weeding people out.
Jeremy Leinen:
Mm-hmm.
Jeremy Leinen:
, we're not very good at attracting and retaining people.
Jeremy Leinen:
I mean, this industry has the highest burnout rate of.
Jeremy Leinen:
You know, we don't need more of, of pushing people away.
Jeremy Leinen:
I mean, we already do too much of that.
Jeremy Leinen:
That's the problem, you know, And as I said, the problem can't be the solution.
Jeremy Leinen:
So that, that's, that's one of the biggest things, it just, just has
Jeremy Leinen:
to change, you know, is how do we make this more approachable and, and
Jeremy Leinen:
make it a viable career path, you know, for people that, again, you.
Jeremy Leinen:
They like to cook.
Jeremy Leinen:
They, they want to take it seriously.
Jeremy Leinen:
They wanna do a good job, but you know, they don't necessarily wanna be in charge.
Jeremy Leinen:
You know, they have a skill set.
Jeremy Leinen:
They wanna be paid fairly for it.
Jeremy Leinen:
And, you know, they, they wanna be able to live a decent life, which, you know, I
Jeremy Leinen:
don't see anything wrong with any of that.
Jeremy Leinen:
Right.
Jeremy Leinen:
And that's what we have to figure out how, how we can offer.
Jeremy Leinen:
That's our
Adam Lamb:
guest chef Jeremy Line.
Adam Lamb:
He's the executive chef at the Park Ridge Country Club in Chicago.
Adam Lamb:
And on this episode he discusses how the pandemic affected his business.
Adam Lamb:
He talks about how the industry is facing a crisis with a lack of skilled workers,
Adam Lamb:
and after the break we'll discuss ways in which we can flip the script and focus on
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the importance of quality of life for the employees in the food service industry.
Adam Lamb:
Stay tuned.
Jeremy Leinen:
Hmm.
Adam Lamb:
This is Chef Life Radio, serving chefs just like
Adam Lamb:
you who wanna enjoy the careers without sacrificing their.
Adam Lamb:
I'm your host Adam Lamb, and over my 30 year career as a chef and
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hospitality professional, I've coached and mentored thousands of
Adam Lamb:
arians who led lives of contribution, community, and authentic leadership.
Adam Lamb:
Let me be your guide on this journey together, looking for solutions and
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perspectives to some of the biggest issues impacting the hospitality
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industry, our lives and our careers.
Adam Lamb:
Today, we shall and.
Adam Lamb:
Back to the show
Adam Lamb:
Chef.
Adam Lamb:
Thank you so much for joining us today at Chef Life Radio, Tommy Man House.
Jeremy Leinen:
It's a little weird these days, you know, obviously
Jeremy Leinen:
it's been picking up here lately.
Jeremy Leinen:
You know, everybody thinks the pandemic is over, but obviously, you know, it's,
Jeremy Leinen:
it's not, and it's, it's a completely different set of challenges, you know,
Jeremy Leinen:
for us in the industry kind trying to come back right now when, you know, everybody's
Jeremy Leinen:
been kind of stuck at home and waiting to get vaccinated and now, you know, they
Jeremy Leinen:
have, and everybody wants to come back and think everything's back to normal.
Jeremy Leinen:
But we're not quite there yet.
Adam Lamb:
So why don't you give our listeners kind of an overview of.
Adam Lamb:
Covid actually affected your business.
Jeremy Leinen:
So I think it was right around St.
Jeremy Leinen:
Patrick's Day when everything hit the fan.
Jeremy Leinen:
You know, a little over a year ago, we got in, I think it was on Tuesday, and we're,
Jeremy Leinen:
we're told that we're, you know, shutting down, you know, so we spent a couple
Jeremy Leinen:
hours to just clean up a little bit.
Jeremy Leinen:
The initial thought was this was gonna last two weeks and then life
Jeremy Leinen:
was gonna be back to normal.
Jeremy Leinen:
And obviously it didn't go that way at all.
Jeremy Leinen:
So we ended up, the club was closed entirely for a.
Jeremy Leinen:
You know, we, we didn't operate at all.
Jeremy Leinen:
And then we kind of slowly came back with I think golf was first
Jeremy Leinen:
and, you know, then we started a very limited to go program with, you
Jeremy Leinen:
know, kind of one offering per night.
Jeremy Leinen:
And it was pretty much management staff only.
Jeremy Leinen:
And then, you know, a few weeks later we decided to reopen ala carte, but of course
Jeremy Leinen:
there were, you know, we had restrictions as far as, you know, number of seats
Jeremy Leinen:
and capacity and, and, and all that.
Jeremy Leinen:
So it, it was very, Staged out and measured, you know, for a
Jeremy Leinen:
while we were doing ALA card as well as a to go offering.
Jeremy Leinen:
And you know, pretty much through, through the end of the year we were doing both.
Jeremy Leinen:
And you know, at some point we decided that, you know, come
Jeremy Leinen:
January 1st, we weren't, Oh, got a cat in the picture now here
Jeremy Leinen:
. Adam Lamb: Hello darling
Jeremy Leinen:
. Jeremy Leinen: But you know, so we've
Jeremy Leinen:
since January and you know, it's been kind of up and down with, you know, staffing.
Jeremy Leinen:
And it's not, you know, just us in the kitchen, obviously front of the house
Jeremy Leinen:
is, you know, having their struggles as well with, you know, there's nights
Jeremy Leinen:
where, you know, unfortunately we're having to put a cap on number of people
Jeremy Leinen:
that we can serve because, you know, they've only got four or five servers
Jeremy Leinen:
on the floor and they need, you know, 10 to be able to run a full service.
Jeremy Leinen:
So, you know, it's been, you know, every week it's a little bit
Jeremy Leinen:
different, you know, we'll have a really good week where, you know,
Jeremy Leinen:
everybody's here and you know, nobody.
Jeremy Leinen:
Needs time off or anything like that.
Jeremy Leinen:
And then, you know, the next week it's a little bit slower because, you know, we
Jeremy Leinen:
just don't have the same number of bodies.
Jeremy Leinen:
And then, you know, spring rolled around you obviously graduation
Jeremy Leinen:
season and, and weddings and all that.
Jeremy Leinen:
You know, I don't know, I can't speak to it quite as much as, as how it is
Jeremy Leinen:
in hotels and the restaurant business.
Jeremy Leinen:
But in clubs, you know, there's about a six week window you.
Jeremy Leinen:
Between, you know, late April, May, and early June where everybody wants
Jeremy Leinen:
to do everything all at once, right?
Jeremy Leinen:
So you know, the weather's nice.
Jeremy Leinen:
So weather's nice.
Jeremy Leinen:
So golf is busy, you know, people are having weddings,
Jeremy Leinen:
there's graduation parties.
Jeremy Leinen:
The pool opens and it's pretty much, you know, all systems go all at the same time.
Jeremy Leinen:
Which, you know, those few weeks are.
Jeremy Leinen:
Always some of the most stressful of the year anyway.
Jeremy Leinen:
But then you add, you know, the covid and you know, the staffing challenges
Jeremy Leinen:
that we had and it things, things hit a fever pitch for us there for a minute.
Jeremy Leinen:
So it, it was a challenge.
Adam Lamb:
And of course, you know, in a club you've got a clientele that
Adam Lamb:
is incredibly vested in their ability to access the facility and make
Adam Lamb:
use of all the benefits and stuff.
Adam Lamb:
So how, you know, have you found that they're accommodating?
Adam Lamb:
To the restrictions and the fact that, hey, listen man,
Adam Lamb:
I can't open up a full room.
Adam Lamb:
I need 10 staff and I've only got five.
Jeremy Leinen:
Initially they weren't, you know, there was a lot of frustration
Jeremy Leinen:
there in the beginning, you know, and it took us a little bit of time
Jeremy Leinen:
as far as, you know, getting the messaging out there because, you know,
Jeremy Leinen:
initially they don't really understand, you know, one thing, why, and then.
Jeremy Leinen:
They initially, some of them, you know, want to think, Well, why
Jeremy Leinen:
are you guys having this problem?
Jeremy Leinen:
And it's like, well, it's not just us, it's everybody.
Jeremy Leinen:
Right.
Jeremy Leinen:
And, you know, then once we, we were able to start, you know, communicating
Jeremy Leinen:
a little bit more and, and getting some of the word out, having meetings with,
Jeremy Leinen:
you know, some of the committees, getting emails going out to the bulk of the
Jeremy Leinen:
membership, you know, and having some one-on-one conversations with people
Jeremy Leinen:
that, you know, we happen to cross paths with and, and, and would ask.
Jeremy Leinen:
Then the tide started to.
Jeremy Leinen:
You know, once we could explain things to people, you know, I, I started
Jeremy Leinen:
telling people at one point, you know, I had had ads up, you know, for various
Jeremy Leinen:
jobs I was offering for a couple of weeks, and at that point I had had more
Jeremy Leinen:
jobs posted than interviews scheduled.
Jeremy Leinen:
Yeah.
Jeremy Leinen:
For one, I couldn't get people to respond to, to the ads, and even if they did,
Jeremy Leinen:
they wouldn't show up for interviews.
Jeremy Leinen:
I mean, I think one week I had eight interviews scheduled
Jeremy Leinen:
and one of 'em showed up.
Jeremy Leinen:
You know, and you just start telling 'em some of these stories
Jeremy Leinen:
and, and then it's like, okay, you know, it's like, yeah, you guys are
Jeremy Leinen:
trying and well, of course we are.
Jeremy Leinen:
But that just took a little bit of time and, you know, stop it
Jeremy Leinen:
and having those conversations.
Jeremy Leinen:
And what
Adam Lamb:
percentage of your staff do you think you ended up
Adam Lamb:
losing over the course of Covid?
Jeremy Leinen:
You know, to be honest with you, fortunately for
Jeremy Leinen:
me, I didn't really lose too many.
Jeremy Leinen:
You know, with the shutdown, I mean, that was one thing that I was
Jeremy Leinen:
really proud of with, with the club, was the way they really stepped.
Jeremy Leinen:
And took care of the staff that they had.
Jeremy Leinen:
You know, when we, we shut down for a month, the club paid
Jeremy Leinen:
everybody their, their full wages that they would normally make.
Jeremy Leinen:
So the club kept everybody whole through that time.
Jeremy Leinen:
And then once, you know, the government got everything together with what
Jeremy Leinen:
they were gonna do with, you know, the different bills and, and this and that.
Jeremy Leinen:
At that point, the club furloughed people.
Jeremy Leinen:
Knowing that they were gonna be taken care of with the unemployment.
Jeremy Leinen:
But the club continued to pay their health insurance for 'em
Jeremy Leinen:
so that they wouldn't lose that.
Jeremy Leinen:
That's pretty righteous.
Jeremy Leinen:
So the, I mean, the club did a great job in terms of taking
Jeremy Leinen:
care of the staff that we had.
Jeremy Leinen:
So, I mean, I think all told, I only lost maybe three people.
Jeremy Leinen:
You know, when we started bringing people back there were you obviously.
Jeremy Leinen:
There being no banquets.
Jeremy Leinen:
That was really the only area that that really hit me.
Jeremy Leinen:
So there were a couple people that I just wasn't able to bring
Jeremy Leinen:
back due to not having banquets.
Jeremy Leinen:
So I, I run a staff of about 20, So only losing three.
Jeremy Leinen:
That's not so bad.
Jeremy Leinen:
No, not at all.
Jeremy Leinen:
Now, you know, once, you know, we got into things.
Jeremy Leinen:
I mean, there, there's always the issue of retention.
Jeremy Leinen:
You know, I, I lost a couple people over time, you know, trying to
Jeremy Leinen:
rehire at that point, you know, got to be a little bit of a challenge.
Jeremy Leinen:
But, you know, in terms of just.
Jeremy Leinen:
From, from the layoff.
Jeremy Leinen:
Initially I didn't do too bad.
Jeremy Leinen:
One of
Adam Lamb:
the things that I really enjoy was your articles in Club and Resort
Adam Lamb:
Chef Magazine and on their website.
Adam Lamb:
And it's not a magazine that normally, you know, I would come across in my reading
Adam Lamb:
and fortunately, Not only your prolific writer, but you post a lot on LinkedIn.
Adam Lamb:
So I wanna say thanks for that.
Adam Lamb:
Cause it's always important to get another person's perspective.
Adam Lamb:
So I spent the last couple years in in the healthcare segment in
Adam Lamb:
a high quality CCRC in Asheville, North Carolina with 650 residents.
Adam Lamb:
So I totally get that kind of expectation that the, that the
Adam Lamb:
campus might necessarily have.
Adam Lamb:
Which kind of brings me to some of the questions I had in reading your stuff,
Adam Lamb:
if you don't mind me going there, right?
Adam Lamb:
Sure.
Adam Lamb:
So, I guess the first article that I wanted to talk about was one
Adam Lamb:
titled How Did We Get Here?
Adam Lamb:
And you brought out some really great salient points, but there's a couple
Adam Lamb:
lines at the end of the very first per paragraph that says, Others say
Adam Lamb:
the food service industry is about to reinvent itself in this aftermath.
Adam Lamb:
That's normally a hopeful outlook, but I don't share it.
Adam Lamb:
My gut feeling is that the industry is about to have the
Adam Lamb:
proverbial screws put to it again.
Adam Lamb:
So can you expand on that a.
Jeremy Leinen:
It's, It's interesting, I wrote that a little over a year
Jeremy Leinen:
ago when all this first started, and I guess fortunately, I.
Jeremy Leinen:
Have maybe changed my tune on that.
Jeremy Leinen:
All right.
Jeremy Leinen:
Just a little bit.
Jeremy Leinen:
But you know, at the, at the time when, when I wrote that, my fear at that, at
Jeremy Leinen:
that point, and you know, there's still a little bit of it, is that, you know, this
Jeremy Leinen:
industry has always been expected to do more with less, you know, all the time.
Jeremy Leinen:
I mean, it's, it's hypercompetitive, you know, if you have to cut staff, you
Jeremy Leinen:
know, everybody just has to do more work to deliver on the same expectations.
Jeremy Leinen:
So, you know, given.
Jeremy Leinen:
Just, you know, the history of this industry, at least, you know, in the, you
Jeremy Leinen:
know, 17 years that I've been doing it.
Jeremy Leinen:
My gut reaction at the time was that we were gonna, you know, have to gut
Jeremy Leinen:
our staffs and still find a way to do everything that we always had to do
Jeremy Leinen:
anyway, I, I think, I, I have seen some positive trends since then that give me
Jeremy Leinen:
a little bit more optimism, you know, at least for the, the industry as a whole.
Jeremy Leinen:
You know, you get into, you know, clubs versus, you know, the rest of it all.
Jeremy Leinen:
You know, there, there're two very different conversations.
Jeremy Leinen:
Sure.
Jeremy Leinen:
But
Adam Lamb:
speak to some of the, the expectations that maybe have changed
Adam Lamb:
or the outlook that's changed for you.
Jeremy Leinen:
You know, for one thing, you know, the way that we've
Jeremy Leinen:
reacted to, you know, the, the short staffing that we've had, You know,
Jeremy Leinen:
like, like I was talking about here a minute ago with, you know, having to
Jeremy Leinen:
open the pool and, and, and mm-hmm.
Jeremy Leinen:
and all that stuff.
Jeremy Leinen:
You know, I remember we were two weeks away from opening the pool and I, I
Jeremy Leinen:
looked at, you know, the clubhouse manager who's my superior, and I said, I gotta
Jeremy Leinen:
open this pool in two weeks and I have no idea right now how I'm gonna do it.
Jeremy Leinen:
Cuz at that point, the only person that I had to be able to staff my pool
Jeremy Leinen:
cafe was, you know, one of my lunch cooks who I could afford to lose.
Jeremy Leinen:
The pool's a six day a week operation, and that was the only person that I had.
Jeremy Leinen:
So, you know, fortunately, I, I had a, a very brief exchange, I can't even
Jeremy Leinen:
remember how it came up, but on LinkedIn with, you know, certified Master Chef
Jeremy Leinen:
Gerald Ford, and he, he made a suggestion about, you know, Put a plan in writing
Jeremy Leinen:
and give it to your superiors and, you know, to let 'em know, you know, what the
Jeremy Leinen:
problems are, what potential solutions you have, and what you're doing about it.
Jeremy Leinen:
And so I, I did just that and I didn't expect them to necessarily
Jeremy Leinen:
let me do any of what I suggested, and they said yes to all of it.
Jeremy Leinen:
So instead of, you know, the pool being open six days a
Jeremy Leinen:
week, we're only open five.
Jeremy Leinen:
Instead of being open for service eight to nine hours, we're only open for six.
Jeremy Leinen:
So, you know, in the interim I have been able to staff it with just one person.
Jeremy Leinen:
So like that was huge, you know, and previously, You know, and it's, you
Jeremy Leinen:
know, not a complaint against my club.
Jeremy Leinen:
I think it's just the nature of being a chef is, you know, I could
Jeremy Leinen:
have talked about, you know, the problems or the challenges all day
Jeremy Leinen:
and it's like, eh, make it happen.
Jeremy Leinen:
You know, That's, that's what you're here for, is to figure it out.
Jeremy Leinen:
Sure.
Jeremy Leinen:
So seeing, you know, some of these compromises happen and, and the
Jeremy Leinen:
willingness to respond and you know, kind of change with, you know, what
Jeremy Leinen:
we're dealing with, that has made me kind of change my tune about things,
Jeremy Leinen:
you know, pretty significantly.
Adam Lamb:
Do you think that that's o obviously that's enlightened
Adam Lamb:
leadership, man, that would.
Adam Lamb:
like, listen and take all Windows account.
Adam Lamb:
You think that's a an expected response, Industrywide, or you think
Adam Lamb:
there's still those folks out there like, Yeah, I don't care how you get
Adam Lamb:
it done, chef, but it's gotta happen.
Adam Lamb:
I mean,
Jeremy Leinen:
there's always gonna be that, you know, I,
Jeremy Leinen:
I've worked, I mean, this is the third club that I've been in, so.
Jeremy Leinen:
I've worked under four different GMs at this point, and, you know, they're
Jeremy Leinen:
all different and, you know, I've seen different mentalities, so, I mean,
Jeremy Leinen:
you're, you're always gonna have that.
Jeremy Leinen:
But I think, you know, moving forward just with, you know, the way this industry kind
Jeremy Leinen:
of has been, and, you know, we've known that this was coming for, for a while.
Jeremy Leinen:
I mean, this is, this isn't as new as people think it is.
Jeremy Leinen:
You know, we, we've heard the train on the tracks for a long
Jeremy Leinen:
time and it's now, it's here.
Jeremy Leinen:
And so I think.
Jeremy Leinen:
The, the people that don't necessarily want to hear this stuff, they're,
Jeremy Leinen:
they're gonna have to hear it and they're gonna have to figure out how to deal
Jeremy Leinen:
with it, whether they like it or not.
Adam Lamb:
So are you talking specifically about labor shortages
Adam Lamb:
or just inability to attract quality?
Adam Lamb:
Applicants, Or what specifically are you talking about?
Adam Lamb:
Well, I mean,
Jeremy Leinen:
I don't think it's, it's any big secret.
Jeremy Leinen:
I, I think, you know, I mean this business is tough and, you know, Yeah.
Jeremy Leinen:
Being, being a cook's hard work and it's not glamorous
Jeremy Leinen:
and it doesn't pay very well.
Jeremy Leinen:
And you know, I've known far too many people that are, are skilled workers.
Jeremy Leinen:
You know, I'm not talking about, you know, some high school kids that fold t-shirts
Jeremy Leinen:
at a department store on the weekends that have a little spending money.
Jeremy Leinen:
I mean, these are skilled professionals that are having to work two jobs.
Jeremy Leinen:
Just to not live in poverty.
Jeremy Leinen:
And I think people have to face the facts of, you know, why
Jeremy Leinen:
would somebody want to do that?
Jeremy Leinen:
You know, you can talk about passion all you want to, but you know, I
Jeremy Leinen:
mean, why should somebody wanna be passionate to live that way?
Jeremy Leinen:
Right?
Jeremy Leinen:
And, and I think that's the crisis this industry has to figure out.
Jeremy Leinen:
And, and that's really what we're up against, right?
Adam Lamb:
So another question based on another article you wrote, how we're
Adam Lamb:
reacting to the labor shortage madness?
Adam Lamb:
But first I have a little comment and so I'm just asking, you know, is
Adam Lamb:
this really madness or is it kind of inevitable consequence of how like we as
Adam Lamb:
an industry of squandered human capital, you know, for a really, really long time?
Jeremy Leinen:
I think you hit the nail on the head.
Jeremy Leinen:
It absolutely is a consequence.
Jeremy Leinen:
I mean, like I was saying a minute ago, you know, most chefs have been.
Jeremy Leinen:
Talking about this for a while, like this, this isn't new.
Jeremy Leinen:
We've known it was coming.
Jeremy Leinen:
Right.
Jeremy Leinen:
You know, there theres just been too many people that just
Jeremy Leinen:
haven't wanted to deal with it.
Adam Lamb:
And so in your experience or your observation, how are most
Adam Lamb:
operators dealing with this issue?
Adam Lamb:
How are friends of yours in other segments of the industry dealing with this?
Jeremy Leinen:
You know, obviously pay rates are going up, which, which
Jeremy Leinen:
is a good start, but I, I think it's gonna take a whole lot more than.
Jeremy Leinen:
You know, there's a lot of conversation that, that I'm hearing as, as far as,
Jeremy Leinen:
you know, things that are gonna have to happen, you know, some changes,
Jeremy Leinen:
you know, just as far as, you know, scheduled demands and, you know, being
Jeremy Leinen:
able to get somebody a Saturday off every once in a while, not because they're
Jeremy Leinen:
going on vacation, but it's just, you know, here, why don't you take, have
Jeremy Leinen:
Saturday off so you can see your family, You know, just quality of life stuff.
Jeremy Leinen:
There's a lot of conversation about that.
Jeremy Leinen:
I don't know how much that's happening.
Jeremy Leinen:
You know, unfortunately, I, I, I wish I could tell you that that's something that
Jeremy Leinen:
I've been able to start doing, right?
Jeremy Leinen:
If it's not I'm, I'm not there yet, but I, I think that's, Kind
Jeremy Leinen:
of one of the key things for this industry is, you know, your kid's
Jeremy Leinen:
got a a, a soccer game on Saturday.
Jeremy Leinen:
You might not be able to make all of them, but you should be able to go
Jeremy Leinen:
once in a while, you know, without having to, you know, request a day off
Jeremy Leinen:
and, and burn a vacation day to do it.
Jeremy Leinen:
You know, So a lot of it's, it's, it's those types of things, you know?
Jeremy Leinen:
I mean, obviously yeah, the, the, the pay rate stuff is huge, but it's the having.
Jeremy Leinen:
be so detached from your family and your home life all the time.
Jeremy Leinen:
That that's, that's really the, the silent killer in this industry.
Adam Lamb:
I live in Asheville, which is, you know, a beautiful
Adam Lamb:
place in the Blue Ridge Mountains.
Adam Lamb:
Mm-hmm.
Adam Lamb:
, and it's such that, you know, I, I don't know anybody who works two jobs
Adam Lamb:
who can afford to live in Asheville.
Adam Lamb:
So where do these people come from?
Adam Lamb:
As a matter of fact spent 25 years in South Florida and Key West got so
Adam Lamb:
bad that they were actually sending, the city was sending a bus four hours.
Adam Lamb:
Up the overseas highway to the nearest town so people could board a bus to drive
Adam Lamb:
four hours to work an eight hour shift and then go back four more hours because
Adam Lamb:
there's just nowhere for these folks to live on what they were getting paid.
Adam Lamb:
So cooks, you know, professionals, you know folks who probably have
Adam Lamb:
no more larger aspiration than to do the best job they possibly.
Adam Lamb:
To take care of their family without, you know, climbing the company ladder or
Adam Lamb:
for any other aspiration other than, you know, to be considered a good person.
Adam Lamb:
And I think you made a comment in one of your articles that, you know, if someone's
Adam Lamb:
here for a paycheck, that that's probably not said in a in a complimentary fashion.
Adam Lamb:
But, you know, I've known some really, really amazing people who, you know,
Adam Lamb:
all they wanted to do was just come in, do their shift and go home.
Adam Lamb:
They didn't wanna get involved in the politics.
Adam Lamb:
They didn't necessarily wanna get involved in anything else.
Adam Lamb:
So can you sing some praises about, you know, the folks.
Adam Lamb:
Just come and do their job and wanna leave.
Jeremy Leinen:
Right.
Jeremy Leinen:
You know, my, my morning prep ladies in banquets, you know, they're,
Jeremy Leinen:
they're both from Mexico and, you know, they're not necessarily
Jeremy Leinen:
there to set the world on fire.
Jeremy Leinen:
You know, they're not, you know, trying to be the next to coffee or
Jeremy Leinen:
anything like that, you know, But they come in, they do what they're asked
Jeremy Leinen:
to do, they do a really good job.
Jeremy Leinen:
You know, whatever you show 'em, they're happy to do it.
Jeremy Leinen:
And you know, ultimately, They wanna be able to put food on the table,
Jeremy Leinen:
take care of their family, and, you know, they wanna do a good job.
Jeremy Leinen:
And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.
Jeremy Leinen:
And I've just, I've been around a lot of chefs and a lot of people in this
Jeremy Leinen:
business for a long time that, you know, look down on, you know, people like that.
Jeremy Leinen:
You know, I've, I've heard, you know, people talk about, They'll say, Oh God,
Jeremy Leinen:
that guy's a 35 year old saute cook.
Jeremy Leinen:
And it's like, well, you know, so I mean, you know, so what?
Jeremy Leinen:
He doesn't wanna be the chef.
Jeremy Leinen:
Like it's, it's not for everybody.
Jeremy Leinen:
And you know, ultimately if, if the guy's a 35 year old saute
Jeremy Leinen:
cook and he does a good job at it, what's, what's the problem?
Jeremy Leinen:
The, the industry needs those people too.
Jeremy Leinen:
And, and we've gotta.
Jeremy Leinen:
Sitting on them.
Jeremy Leinen:
Right.
Jeremy Leinen:
And it's, it's kind of this whole thing where, you know, we make people live in a
Jeremy Leinen:
meat grinder for a long time to, you know, prove their value and then eventually
Jeremy Leinen:
they get paid a decent amount of money.
Jeremy Leinen:
And it's like, well, but again, it goes back to why should
Jeremy Leinen:
somebody want to do that?
Jeremy Leinen:
Cause people aren't lining up to want to do this for a living.
Jeremy Leinen:
So, you know, we, we've gotta get outta that mentality because
Jeremy Leinen:
eventually, you know, we can't just keep weeding people out.
Jeremy Leinen:
There's not gonna be anybody.
Jeremy Leinen:
Do you think we do
Adam Lamb:
a particularly good job at training our people?
Adam Lamb:
And I'm not talking about training somebody on saute to the menu.
Adam Lamb:
I'm talking about building skill sets once a month, when you know, things might be
Adam Lamb:
slow and bringing in a whole sword fish and having everybody going and go up,
Adam Lamb:
boning it out, you know, things like that.
Adam Lamb:
I mean, how do we actually, how do we grade as far as, you know, you,
Adam Lamb:
you know, prior to the eighties, you know, One of the main ways you learned
Adam Lamb:
was to become an apprentice, and then all of a sudden that dried up with
Adam Lamb:
the advent of, you know, one 800 be a chef and all the for-profit schools.
Adam Lamb:
And it's like, after that, it seems like everybody just went, Okay, we don't
Adam Lamb:
have to worry about that shit anymore.
Adam Lamb:
They got, they're gonna, they're gonna come to us with all the
Adam Lamb:
skills that they need or else.
Adam Lamb:
Right,
Jeremy Leinen:
Right.
Jeremy Leinen:
Well, I mean, interestingly enough, I.
Jeremy Leinen:
Listen to the interview between you and, and Paul Sorgel , and you know,
Jeremy Leinen:
you guys had talked about this and, you know, I think he, he hit the nail on
Jeremy Leinen:
the head with, you know, just the fact that the, this, this industry doesn't
Jeremy Leinen:
invest in its people like it used to.
Jeremy Leinen:
You know?
Jeremy Leinen:
I mean, that was one thing about the Greenbrier with, you know,
Jeremy Leinen:
the apprenticeship there, you know, How much product they were
Jeremy Leinen:
willing to let you screw up.
Jeremy Leinen:
Yeah.
Jeremy Leinen:
To learn how to do things.
Jeremy Leinen:
I mean, most, most operations just can't afford to do that.
Jeremy Leinen:
That's true.
Jeremy Leinen:
And you know, it's, it's one of those things that, that I rail
Jeremy Leinen:
against in my current operation.
Jeremy Leinen:
I've been there five years and when I got there, only.
Jeremy Leinen:
Sous chefs were allowed to cut meat.
Jeremy Leinen:
So of course nobody else knew how to do it.
Jeremy Leinen:
Right.
Jeremy Leinen:
And you know, it was pretty much one of those things from day one I said,
Jeremy Leinen:
No, this stops because I am not having this, where there's only three of us
Jeremy Leinen:
here in the building that know how to cut filets or know how to, you know.
Jeremy Leinen:
Cut salmon or whatever it is.
Jeremy Leinen:
I mean, it's just silly.
Jeremy Leinen:
And you know, of course, you know, everybody kind of recoiled it like,
Jeremy Leinen:
well what if they screw it up?
Jeremy Leinen:
It's like, well, I mean you screwed it up a few times and
Jeremy Leinen:
that's how you learn, right?
Jeremy Leinen:
I mean, you know, it's just, it's the cost doing business.
Jeremy Leinen:
And you know, in the long run, you know, somebody screws up.
Jeremy Leinen:
You know, five or six sides of salmon before they start getting a handle on it.
Jeremy Leinen:
Yeah.
Jeremy Leinen:
Grand scheme of things.
Jeremy Leinen:
It's not that much money, Right?
Jeremy Leinen:
Like it's, it's, it's okay.
Jeremy Leinen:
You know, and it, it kind of goes to one of those memes that I've seen and I, and
Jeremy Leinen:
I forget where, where I saw it at, but it was, you know, it's the CFO and the,
Jeremy Leinen:
and the CEO talking to each other and the CFO says, you know, well, what if
Jeremy Leinen:
we invest in our people and they leave?
Jeremy Leinen:
And the CEO says, Well, what if we don't invest in 'em and they stay?
Jeremy Leinen:
Right?
Jeremy Leinen:
You know, that's kind of the crossroads of that whole thing.
Jeremy Leinen:
How
Adam Lamb:
do you think let's, let's fast forward or project ourselves in
Adam Lamb:
the future for a moment and say that, you know, there's this significant
Adam Lamb:
enough portion of the industry that's made these changes, You know, worked
Adam Lamb:
on creating, you know, empowering culture who've, you know, invested in
Adam Lamb:
training programs and et cetera, et c.
Adam Lamb:
like, how many generations are we gonna lose in the meantime?
Adam Lamb:
You know, millennials are the millennials I've worked with who for the most
Adam Lamb:
part are really, really hard workers, but they're also very, very cut and
Adam Lamb:
dry when it comes to like, This is not really fitting my lifestyle.
Adam Lamb:
This is not really working for me.
Adam Lamb:
I'll see you later.
Adam Lamb:
And boom, they're out the door.
Adam Lamb:
Whereas my generation was more like hanging on dear life because of the
Adam Lamb:
thought, like, where the hell you're gonna get your next paycheck from?
Adam Lamb:
So I, I think somewhere in the middle there's probably a good balance, but.
Adam Lamb:
I guess I would ask, what are your hopes for the future for the industry?
Jeremy Leinen:
That, that's a, a tough question to answer because, you
Jeremy Leinen:
know, I, I see, I, I see the industry changing pretty, pretty dramatically.
Jeremy Leinen:
And, and, and a lot of it's kind of started already with just
Jeremy Leinen:
a shift towards casual dining.
Jeremy Leinen:
Mm-hmm.
Jeremy Leinen:
, which, you know, on one, one hand.
Jeremy Leinen:
It's interesting seeing what people are doing with quick service restaurant
Jeremy Leinen:
concepts and you know how you can take good food and make it quick
Jeremy Leinen:
and easy and it's fast and people could be in and out in 15 minutes.
Jeremy Leinen:
Yeah.
Jeremy Leinen:
You know, dining doesn't have to be a 90 minute affair anymore, which, you
Jeremy Leinen:
know, again, that it's interesting, you know, some of the, you know,
Jeremy Leinen:
possibilities that are there, but it, it, you know, at the same time you.
Jeremy Leinen:
Coming up, you know, the way I have, and I'm sure the way you did, you know,
Jeremy Leinen:
there's a certain amount of romanticism in me that, you know, really appreciates,
Jeremy Leinen:
you know, the theater of fine dining.
Jeremy Leinen:
Sure.
Jeremy Leinen:
You know what all goes into it, You know, you know, you watch a, you
Jeremy Leinen:
know, a classical hotline and action.
Jeremy Leinen:
It's almost like a ballet, like, I mean, there's just, there's something about it.
Jeremy Leinen:
I'm hoping that that doesn't have to go.
Jeremy Leinen:
But it, as dining gets more and more casual, I, I'm, I'm wondering if
Jeremy Leinen:
all that stuff is gonna get to be more and more of a niche offering.
Jeremy Leinen:
You know, obviously with the pandemic, you know, we had to limit human interaction
Jeremy Leinen:
and we got taught to, you know, you'd go to a restaurant and you'd scan a QR
Jeremy Leinen:
code and you'd order from your phone.
Jeremy Leinen:
So, I mean, I don't know how that's gonna carry over into the next few years.
Jeremy Leinen:
I mean, is that something that's gonna stick around just
Jeremy Leinen:
for the sake of efficiency or.
Jeremy Leinen:
Are people gonna push back against that and, and say, you know, no.
Jeremy Leinen:
You know, I, I go out to eat because I want the service
Jeremy Leinen:
and I want the interaction.
Jeremy Leinen:
You know, I, I don't know.
Jeremy Leinen:
Right.
Jeremy Leinen:
But I think I, I think the good thing is that at least hopefully there,
Jeremy Leinen:
there's a lot of this stuff that.
Jeremy Leinen:
, you know, has put the industry in the, in the position that it's been in, where it's
Jeremy Leinen:
gotten so hypercompetitive with, you know, everybody trying to undercut each other
Jeremy Leinen:
and, you know, you can go in somewhere and demand that they do something
Jeremy Leinen:
that they don't really do and mm-hmm.
Jeremy Leinen:
you know, they'll do it just because they don't want you to leave.
Jeremy Leinen:
Right.
Jeremy Leinen:
And they'll do it for a dollar less.
Jeremy Leinen:
And where you say you usually get it from just because they don't want you
Jeremy Leinen:
to leave and they want you to come back.
Jeremy Leinen:
Has not done the industry any favors.
Jeremy Leinen:
I mean, we can, we consistently devalue our own product and our own
Jeremy Leinen:
skill set like that isn't sustainable.
Jeremy Leinen:
So I, I hope that type of thing goes away and, and I hope that, you know,
Jeremy Leinen:
restaurants get to be, you know, more efficient and I'm hoping that, you
Jeremy Leinen:
know, some of the, the understanding.
Jeremy Leinen:
Consumers have had, you know, due to what we've dealt with here lately, I'm
Jeremy Leinen:
hoping some of that sticks around so that, you know, we're not constantly
Jeremy Leinen:
kind of backed into that corner that, that we are a lot of times.
Jeremy Leinen:
Right.
Jeremy Leinen:
So I think those are a couple of the biggest things that I would say.
Adam Lamb:
So you wrote an article called Take Charge of Your Career,
Adam Lamb:
which I thought was really interesting.
Adam Lamb:
You've got like six lessons, but it almost seems like there are
Adam Lamb:
principles for anybody who wants to.
Adam Lamb:
To have a more fulfilling career.
Adam Lamb:
And one really spoke to me, and I was curious to know if you would expand
Adam Lamb:
on this idea of servant leadership.
Adam Lamb:
You know, I think for the culinary world, that's something that's
Adam Lamb:
a little, little different than what most people are used to.
Adam Lamb:
You know, there's all the memes about, you know, the screaming
Adam Lamb:
chef and all that kind of stuff.
Adam Lamb:
So how do you embody servant leadership in your organiz?
Adam Lamb:
Well, I, I
Jeremy Leinen:
really try to avoid, you know, that whole top down approach
Jeremy Leinen:
of, of a traditional chef where, you know, the chef writes all the menus
Jeremy Leinen:
and the, and the chef, you know, has the final answer on everything.
Jeremy Leinen:
Mm-hmm.
Jeremy Leinen:
and I, I really want it to be a lot more collaborative than that,
Jeremy Leinen:
you know, So, you know, I have sous chefs, you know, in each area.
Jeremy Leinen:
I've got, you know, my chef cuisine in the restaurant.
Jeremy Leinen:
I've got, you know, two sous chefs that share banquets.
Jeremy Leinen:
I I really try to work with them on, you know, what we're doing in those areas.
Jeremy Leinen:
And I, and I want their input and I, I, I want them thinking about, you
Jeremy Leinen:
know, you know, ideas that they have, ways that we can do things better.
Jeremy Leinen:
I don't wanna just be giving them directives all the time.
Jeremy Leinen:
You know, I, I want to hear from them.
Jeremy Leinen:
And, you know, I, I really want that to be their area that I'm kind of
Jeremy Leinen:
help coaching them to run versus, you know, they're working for me.
Jeremy Leinen:
I'm just telling 'em what to do.
Jeremy Leinen:
I mean, that, that's really the last thing that, that I want.
Jeremy Leinen:
And so, you know, really when it comes to the day to day in those areas, you know,
Jeremy Leinen:
I want them to, you know, really feel like they own it and they're in control of it.
Jeremy Leinen:
And you know, if there's something that I can do to step in and help
Jeremy Leinen:
them, you know, Could be to Dyson Onion, it could be to clean some fish.
Jeremy Leinen:
I mean, you know, whatever it is, I'm, I'm happy to step in and, and, and help them
Jeremy Leinen:
to do it and, and make sure that they're successful because, you know, at the end
Jeremy Leinen:
of the day when you're in a leadership position, your success is gonna be defined
Jeremy Leinen:
by the success of your subordinates.
Jeremy Leinen:
So, you know, I'm there to make sure that.
Jeremy Leinen:
They're successful in that they look good cuz you know, if that
Jeremy Leinen:
happens, I'm gonna look fine.
Jeremy Leinen:
Right.
Jeremy Leinen:
Versus, you know, rather than, you know, me standing on top of 'em and, and, and
Jeremy Leinen:
micromanaging and, and giving directives on every little thing, especially if
Jeremy Leinen:
it's somebody that wants my job mm-hmm.
Jeremy Leinen:
eventually, that's not really good way for them to ever learn how to do
Adam Lamb:
it.
Adam Lamb:
Right.
Adam Lamb:
And so you're coaching them.
Adam Lamb:
Are you coaching them in what it looks like for servant leadership
Adam Lamb:
so that they're actually going into their areas and maybe.
Adam Lamb:
Being collaborative with the hourly associates that are in those areas.
Jeremy Leinen:
Yeah.
Jeremy Leinen:
You know, that's, that's one of those things where, you know, there's always.
Jeremy Leinen:
A certain amount of autonomy with, with each person that, that has
Jeremy Leinen:
learned or earned rather, you know, obviously, you know, if we're cooking
Jeremy Leinen:
a piece of fish or, or whatever it may be, obviously, you know, this is a
Jeremy Leinen:
result that we need to right, to have.
Jeremy Leinen:
But as far as the process and how we get there, you know, let's work together
Jeremy Leinen:
on what the best way is to do that.
Jeremy Leinen:
Because, you know, I, I could tell you what, how I would do it.
Jeremy Leinen:
If you're the guy that's gotta work that station every day, I need you
Jeremy Leinen:
confident in, in how you're gonna do it.
Jeremy Leinen:
So if there's a way that we can, you know, compromise and, and work together
Jeremy Leinen:
on, on how we get there, you know, I get the end result that I need to have.
Jeremy Leinen:
And, and you're confident and comfortable with how you're
Jeremy Leinen:
doing it, We all win with that.
Jeremy Leinen:
So that's awesome, man.
Jeremy Leinen:
Man.
Jeremy Leinen:
It's how I try to go about it.
Adam Lamb:
And so if you were gonna give one or two tips maybe that you've
Adam Lamb:
learned through Covid to anyone listening.
Adam Lamb:
How to build a better brigade, How to build, manage.
Adam Lamb:
Those two things that has most served you?
Jeremy Leinen:
Probably one of the, the biggest things is,
Jeremy Leinen:
you know, just being patient.
Jeremy Leinen:
You know, this whole thing's been a process, you know, there's been days
Jeremy Leinen:
that haven't necessarily gone the way we want 'em to, so you, you have to
Jeremy Leinen:
just kind of keep things in perspective and not get too worked up over,
Jeremy Leinen:
you know, one day, not necessarily.
Jeremy Leinen:
You know, going exactly according to plan.
Jeremy Leinen:
Tomorrow's a new day, we get to start over, you know, don't get
Jeremy Leinen:
too high or too low on stuff.
Jeremy Leinen:
And, you know, one thing that, you know, always keep in the, in
Jeremy Leinen:
the back of my head is just the concept of non-linear progression.
Jeremy Leinen:
You know, things don't always move up into the right and straight line, you
Jeremy Leinen:
know, today, like, like I said, today may not go the way we want, but we
Jeremy Leinen:
can, we can get back to work tomorrow.
Jeremy Leinen:
We can get this going the way we need it to.
Jeremy Leinen:
So just be.
Jeremy Leinen:
And, and let things play out.
Jeremy Leinen:
You know, give it some time.
Jeremy Leinen:
And then, you know, the other thing is don't get too
Jeremy Leinen:
worked up on the small stuff.
Jeremy Leinen:
Yo, if we miss one little thing, hey, we miss one little thing.
Jeremy Leinen:
That's it.
Jeremy Leinen:
Let's just keep moving forward.
Jeremy Leinen:
I mean, in a nutshell, those are kind of the, the two biggest things
Jeremy Leinen:
that have kind of helped me maintain sanity, you know, through it all.
Jeremy Leinen:
That's
Adam Lamb:
awesome chef.
Adam Lamb:
That's great wisdom and especially in a commercial food service
Adam Lamb:
environment, thinks we, at least in my experience, forget pretty quickly.
Adam Lamb:
So appreciate you putting that out there.
Adam Lamb:
And if you got some time man, I'd like to invite you out to the back dock and for
Adam Lamb:
those listeners of the podcast, we make sure that we get a little snippet about 15
Adam Lamb:
minutes of conversation that really kind of goes to the heart of who people are.
Adam Lamb:
Thanks for being here, Chef.
Adam Lamb:
We really appreciate everything you brought and I, you know, it's pleasure.
Adam Lamb:
Keep writing cuz.
Adam Lamb:
You got a lot of wisdom and there's a lot of people who could
Adam Lamb:
benefit from that, so thank you.
Adam Lamb:
That's it for this episode of Chef Life Radio.
Adam Lamb:
If you enjoyed it, it made you think laugh or get pissed
Adam Lamb:
off, and please tell a friend.
Adam Lamb:
Get ear free copy of three ideas for Less Chef Dress by signing up for our
Adam Lamb:
monthly newsletter@chefliferadio.com slash sign up here at Chef Life Radio.
Adam Lamb:
We believe that working in a kitchen should be demanding.
Adam Lamb:
It just shouldn't have to be demeaning.
Adam Lamb:
It should be hard.
Adam Lamb:
It just doesn't have to be harsh.
Adam Lamb:
We believe that it's possible to have more solidarity and less suck it up sunshine,
Adam Lamb:
more compassion, less cutthroat island.
Adam Lamb:
We believe in more partnership and less put up, more shut up,
Adam Lamb:
more community, and a lot less.
Adam Lamb:
Fuck you finally.
Adam Lamb:
Consider for a second where all the blood, sweat, and sometimes
Adam Lamb:
even tears we put into what we do.
Adam Lamb:
Really, at the end of the day, that's just some brown stuff on a plate.
Adam Lamb:
None of it really matters.
Adam Lamb:
It doesn't define you as a person or make you any more
Adam Lamb:
special or less than anyone else.
Adam Lamb:
It's just a dance we're engaged in, so we might as well laugh and
Adam Lamb:
enjoy every bit of it, even the crappy parts while we're doing it,
Adam Lamb:
or didn't you know that the purpose of your life should be to enjoy it?
Jeremy Leinen:
Like it half?
Jeremy Leinen:
I love it.
Jeremy Leinen:
I'm humble.
Jeremy Leinen:
Goddamn glory don't.
Adam Lamb:
Follow us@facebook.com.
Adam Lamb:
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Adam Lamb:
And check out our website, chef life radio.com.
Adam Lamb:
Oh yes, Chef stand Tall and frosty Brothers and sisters.
Adam Lamb:
Until next time, be well.
Adam Lamb:
And do good.
Adam Lamb:
Leave the light on.
Adam Lamb:
Honey.
Adam Lamb:
I'm coming home late.
Adam Lamb:
This show was produced, recorded, and edited by me, Adam Lamb, at the Dish
Adam Lamb:
Pit Studios in Baro, North Carolina.
Adam Lamb:
This has been a production of realignment video.